So I've been checking out this conservative website I found. I know, any 'liberal' would say that my brain will rot out of its skull if I keep that up. Whatever. I like to read if there is anything intelligent said on any of these websites, 'conservative' and 'liberal' alike. So, I found this website called Conservababes. Sounds kinky, huh? They tout that they participate in intelligent discussion, so I decided to check some of the posts out.

What did I find? Lots of stuff about the election, of course. Lots of Michael Moore bashing. There was a page with links to every founding member's personal info as well. This was kinda ok, but I'm always leery about people tooting their own horn. But, people love to talk about themselves, there is no doubt about it.

Well, one of the topics in their forum is Book Club. One of my favorite books is Bill Maher's When You Ride Alone, You Ride With Bin Laden. I posted a quote I like from his book, and people actually read it. They even commented!!

So, now of course I have to have a record of it, so here are portions...

My post...

One of my favorite books, When You Ride Alone, You Ride With Bin Laden, by Bill Maher. Some of the things he rants about make a lot of sense."For months in the fall of 2001, our highways looked like a county fair on wheels. “Look out, Al Qaeda—patriot on board!” I once saw a guy with five flags tell a guy with four flags to go back to Afghanistan.Now, is there anything wrong with flags? Of course not. I like the flag plenty, but I never forget it’s only a symbol, a reminder of what we stand for, not a replacement for actually standing for it. Brave Americans in past wars didn’t die for the actual flag—they died for the freedom it represents, including the freedom to burn it.The problem with the flag at this moment in our history is we’ve become masters at fooling ourselves into thinking there is a way to get everything with very little effort. It’s ridiculous we need to even be reminded of this, but just displaying a flag doesn’t actually do anything, any more than “tying a yellow ribbon” brings home a hostage or AIDS ribbons cure AIDS. If we think we’ve done something because we went to Kmart and bought a flag, then the flag is actually hurting, not helping us."Makes sense to me.

There was this reply....

The problem with America-haters like Bill Maher is that they think denegrating the symbol of our freedom is somehow an "actual show of patriotism". No, those are the folks fooling themselves into thinking they've "done something".Those who rushed down to Kmart to buy a flag in the last few years aren't trying to "prove" they're patriotic, they've simply been reminded what it means to be "American" and have chosen to purchase and display that definition as a show of solidarity with the rest of us that actually love this country.

The problem with this guy was he missed the point and concentrated on the flag part. Here's another....

Of course there are armchair- patriots out there who don't really appreciate what the flag represents, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us aren't perfectly aware of the facts. Ignorance is rife here in the States. A sad prediciment indeed.

This guy got the point, but still took it as a personal affront. Mention flag around some people and immediatly they go off about it...

Next there's this lady that posts regularly, who has the most to say about the idea, but still misses the point. It took several posts to get the idea out that it's not about the flag, but... well, here's the rest.

lukky...let me start by welcoming you to Cbabes, and saying that from the outset, you seem to be from the left, but - someone who might actually be able to carry on a proper debate.Now then....to your comments

While it's true that one does have the freedom to burn it...if one considers the flag to be that symbol that represents freedom and all who've come before to fight for it, then - why would you burn something that represents so much? To me, a Christian, this would be like burning a copy of the bible.

I dare say, I believe your comment should have said "The problem with what the flag represents at this moment...." - is that not the case? Because your prior statement said specifically that the flag is "only a symbol, a reminder of what we stand for, not a replacement for actually standing for it."As for this actual statement....a question for you. Do you think that the loss of so many lives to form our country, save our country and protect our country (and all who live in it, including you) is something that should be considered as "very little effort"?

As individuals in this country, we enjoy certain freedoms...one of which is being able to display our flag (and all it represents for us personally) where ever and when ever we choose. Just as someone from the left has the right (although I don't agree with it) to crab about this country and it's freedoms - all the while enjoying the blanket of freedom it ensures. Now, another question for you....would you step into the presence of a military family who proudly displays a flag on their home or their car and tell them they you don't need to be reminded?I look forward to your responses.

Still, it's all about the flag. So, I tried to get the point across, as I stated previously...

First of all, Talismen, this is just a quote from the book, I can't take credit for any of it. As for what I think about it, I don't think the flag is the issue. It is really just a long winded way of saying some in this country think they can do something such as display a flag, and that is all the effort that needs to be put forth to be a contributing citizen. Displaying a flag, or any symbol, is nothing if there is no constructive action to back it up. Like NLB said, it's the 'armchair-patriots' that don't understand what the flag stands for, and use it as a facade in place of actually doing something that might help the country. It's their reasoning behind the action, not the action itself, that is criticized. And that is the concept I found appealing.....

Oh yeah, and there was the fact that she completely missed the fact that it was all a quote. I coulda slammed her for reading too fast, but hey, I read too fast too at times so....

Her response...

I see....so when I display my flag YOU consider that to be "doing nothing". And as I stated, I consider it to be the quietest and yet most powerful way I can let the terrorists (and ALL who support them) know that I not only agree with what the flag represents, but I proudly display the flag, reminding THEM of what it represents.What would you have us do? What are your ideas? Not Mahr's ideas....YOUR ideas....

STILL about the flag, so I tried again, and this time I think I got the point across....

Our Flag is not the point, nor is displaying our Flag.

"...we’ve become masters at fooling ourselves into thinking there is a way to get everything with very little effort."

This is the whole point, dispaying symbols is just an example. Put another way, there are a lot of people in this country that believe they are entitled to a living just by virtue of being alive. People go through life looking to get things handed to them on a silver platter. What do I think? Here is an example I personally witness all the time...

How many times have you heard someone else say they would like a 'good' job that pays well, but one with little or no responsibility? It's either that, or a remark about someone that has a good job, where they make tons of money, with very little effort involved. There are a lot of people that do not want to make a contribution to making this a great country, but think they deserve all the benefits of this country simply because they are a citizen. I know some whose whole purpose in life is getting the most out of 'the system' while expending as little enegy as possible. The 'system' being the government, the company one works for, or the school one goes to.

In a society such as ours, it takes a concerted effort for things to work well, a concerted effort toward something constructive.

As for displaying the Flag, or any other symbol that represents this country, I think everyone has the right to display the flag, but I also think everyone has a responsibility to earn the right to display the Flag. Everyone has a responsibility to do their part, however small it may be, to make this the great country it is, to keep this country great as it is now. I do not look down on anyone that pastes a flag on their car window. I would look down on someone that did this, and nothing else for their country!

So, I hope I got my point across... or do I? Actually, I don't give a shit. What I'm really interested in is seeing how long it takes for someone to get really pissed at some of my comments. It's bound to happen, because although I won't be spouting off right away about my lack of religious preferences, it is going to come out if I continue the intellectual intercourse. I guess that phrase can't be used really, because an intelligence is needed for such intercourse, and I'm extremely lacking in that respect....